In this episode of the Church And State Show, Dave Pellowe sits down with Reverend David Ould for a candid, unscripted conversation about the spiritual and cultural crossroads Australia finds itself at. The question at the heart of this series – “How to Save Australia?” – is tackled head-on, not with political platitudes or shallow slogans, but with theological depth and cultural clarity.
Rev. Oulds, a British-born Anglican minister serving in Parramatta, brings a unique perspective shaped by both his heritage and his ministry in one of Australia’s most ethnically diverse communities. He argues that while Australia’s problems may not be unprecedented in the grand sweep of Western history, they are nonetheless profound. The nation is experiencing a philosophical drift – a forgetting of the Christian foundations that once underpinned our laws, values, and sense of identity.
This isn’t just about religion. It’s about recognising that the freedoms, rights, and moral instincts we take for granted – like the inherent worth of every individual and the impulse to protect the vulnerable – are not universal. They are distinctly Christian ideas, born from the gospel and nurtured through centuries of cultural formation. Books like Dominion by Tom Holland and The Air We Breathe by Glenn Scrivener are cited as essential reading to understand this heritage.
The conversation turns to multiculturalism, a topic often fraught with tension. Pellowe and Oulds agree that the problem isn’t ethnic diversity – which can be beautiful and enriching – but the uncritical acceptance of all cultural values as equal. Without a shared moral compass, society becomes unmoored. Oulds offers a compelling counterpoint: in his own church, people from vastly different backgrounds are united not by ethnicity, but by the gospel. It’s a living example of how Christianity can form a cohesive culture in a pluralistic society.
Pellowe presses the point that Australia’s immigration policy and multicultural experiment have been undermined by a lack of cultural confidence. If we don’t know who we are, how can we expect newcomers to integrate meaningfully? Oulds agrees, but cautions against nostalgia for a monocultural past. Instead, he advocates for a renewed understanding of our Christian heritage – not as a relic, but as a living tradition that can guide us forward.
The episode also explores the role of Christians in politics. Both men reject the idea of imposing religious rule, but passionately argue for active engagement. Democracy, they remind us, is a stewardship – and Christians must participate with wisdom, humility, and a commitment to righteousness. Solomon’s prayer for discernment is held up as a model for voters and leaders alike.
Importantly, Oulds challenges the church itself. He warns against assuming cultural dominance and urges believers to prepare for life in a society that may increasingly reject Christian values. Yet, he remains hopeful. The gospel has always thrived in adversity, and its power to transform lives and communities remains undiminished.
In closing, Pellowe and Oulds agree that the solution to Australia’s crisis isn’t found in political ideology or cultural preservation alone. It’s found in Jesus – in rediscovering the gospel that shaped our nation and sharing it boldly, lovingly, and wisely. Whether through conversations at the pub, engagement in politics, or simply living out the faith in diverse communities, Christians have a vital role to play.
👉 Watch now, and share this with a friend who needs courage for the days ahead.
The Church And State Show, recorded 07OCT25, hosted by Dave Pellowe with special guest Rev David Ould. To be part of the live online audience during recording, subscribe now at DavePellowe.com/follow.
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Dave Pellowe is a Christian political educator & writer who gives priority of philosophy to God’s Word. He founded Church And State ministries in 2016, which has grown to include annual teaching conferences in Canberra, Brisbane, Sydney, Perth, Adelaide, Hobart and regional Australia by invitation.
Specialising in what God says about complex ethical and social issues, Dave Pellowe is a sought after guest speaker at churches, Christian schools, TV, radio and podcast interviews and other secular and Christian forums where love of Truth and nonpartisan thinking are valued. [more]
